| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
32
   |
Posted - 2012.04.26 02:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Seriously, this needs to happen, there needs to be a real reason to go to low sec.
So high people ca see an obvious HUGE reward for putting them selfs at risk. Make high sec where you limp home when you need to run missions and make money easy.
Surprised at you Mothemoon, you've lived in low-sec long enough to know better.
There are plenty of reasons to go to low-sec and plenty of people who do; people who bleat about moving L4's to low-sec tend to be the people who prefer engaging pve'ers with pve fits rather than pvp'ers in pvp fits.
Keep L4's exactly where they are, there's enough cash, action and risk in low-sec if you have the remotest idea what you're doing.
Incursions do need to be removed from hi-sec though. |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Skydell wrote:Incursions are the first and to date only PvE that actually got people to fleet up in Hi sec so they need to be taken away.
No, they need to be used as a template. Willing to fleet is mandatory for PvP in the blob it cowboy game of EVE.
Aside from the fact that hi-sec players have been fleeting up to run 'The Blockade' since forever and mining tends to be a communal activity, there's nothing to stop the same players fleeting up for Incursions in low-sec.
Incursions in hi-sec are an oddity from a backstory, balance and market perspective as far as I've been able to tell upon my return and removing them from hi-sec and placing them in low-sec and null-sec (yes, null-sec) would make more sense to me. |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Souvera Corvus wrote:Skydell wrote:Incursions are the first and to date only PvE that actually got people to fleet up in Hi sec so they need to be taken away.
No, they need to be used as a template. Willing to fleet is mandatory for PvP in the blob it cowboy game of EVE. Aside from the fact that hi-sec players have been fleeting up to run 'The Blockade' since forever and mining tends to be a communal activity, there's nothing to stop the same players fleeting up for Incursions in low-sec. Incursions in hi-sec are an oddity from a backstory, balance and market perspective as far as I've been able to tell upon my return and removing them from hi-sec and placing them in low-sec and null-sec (yes, null-sec) would make more sense to me. It would probably be better said that it's the only form of PvE that explicitly rewards cooperation. Mining does reward cooperation but not sure if that counts under the traditional sense of PvE. From a lore perspective, how does someone attempting to get revenge upon the empires striking areas outside of those empires make sense? They were just rebalanced, so would you still consider them an oddity in that respect? No idea what you mean by calling them a market oddity.
Empires would not let individual capsuleers intervene on their behalf instead of sending a massive fleet in themselves and dealing with the comparatively small Sansha force on their own.
PVE is explicitly rewarded in L4 missions and mining is a form of co-operation where fleeting up is explicitly rewarded.
I've been looking at what are quite frankly ridiculous market prices and trying to source exactly where the issue lies. If you were to take the rise in the price of a Dominix for example; before I left some 6 -8 months ago 40-50 mil would be relatively normal now 90mil isn't unheard of. I thought that perhaps CCP's campaign against the botters might be to blame but then that would be reflected in much smaller mineral markets and much higher mineral costs and it doesn't seem to be. Mineral prices whilst higher by some 20% in terms of Tritanium and Pyerite (Trit 3.5, Pye 6.00) have not appreciated by anything like the same measure as finished products. Higher-end mineral prices don't seem to be remarkably different to when I left.
The only thing that changed it seems, and I may be wrong here and am happy for someone to point it out if I am, are the proliferation of Incursions in hi-sec and a resulting increase in player incomes and the amount of ISK washing around hi-sec.
|
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Lady Aja wrote:Miilla wrote:When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec? you are a fuckign idiot. Reported for circumventing the profanity filter and subjecting my virgin eyes to your obscene language
He wasn't wrong though................. |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 04:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Current market prices being explained by incursions is a conclusion you can only come to by having lived under a rock for the past couple of months. Incursions were released well before the last 6-8 months (15 months ago if I recall correctly). You market conclusions are in a bubble that ignores the significant changes which have just occurred in 2 major ways of obtaining minerals which were announced in advance, allowing player reactions to exasperate the issue.
As for empire navies, they send me after pirates every day lurking in various highsec systems. They do so with several other capsuleers as well. How can you claim they wouldn't do something they do constantly?
Again, mining is not really PvE. Yes, it rewards grouping, but not in the same fashion. Lvl 4's I can't say I've ever noted a significant benefit from grouping. The split of LP rewards, which comprises a substantial portion of the overall profitability, is divided so that it is only marginally better than doing them solo. The rewards tend to diminish as more people are added as well. Not seeing nearly as great a push for cooperative efforts by way of incentives as we see in incursions.
Living under a rock I may have but you haven't offered anything by way of an alternative or demonstrated that any of the assumptions I have made are incorrect; they may be operating in conjunction with other influences I haven't appreciated but you still haven't demonstrated that they are wrong. There is a disparity between mineral prices and manufactured goods that I can only assume are sourced in the amount of Isk that's washing around. If you have an alternative account that doesn't infer that I'm fond of more geological domestic arrangements, I'm all ears.
Your empire navy comment is confusing as it seems to be answering a question I didn't ask. Empire navies should be smashing incursions in hi-sec themselves.
The benefit from grouping, and I have to assume you're being wilfully stupid here, is that you can motor through missions far more quickly accruing LP's and rewards at an accelerated rate. We did so with Fed Navy 5's in Placid for 3-4 months and it was ridiculously easy with 4-5 guys in carriers cycling through agents and missions. You can also do this in corporation groupings which infers a greater benefit for the corporation itself than is available through Incursions with every man for themselves and the scrabble for the loot drops at the end.
There's more risk in low-sec of course and therein lies the source of resistance, I have constantly advocated that low-sec is a viable alternative to Null and hi-sec and in no need of dramatic change and that hi-sec should keep L4's but Incursions in hi-sec are, to me, incongruous and inflationary and people who insist on keeping them there in lieu of moving them to low-sec where they would be far more appropriate, are concerned more with risk and less with balance. |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 07:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
L4's are still in low-sec as far as I'm aware (Haven't done many recently) and they're better paid than the ones in hi-sec, the OP (Vicious troll that he is) suggested moving all them to low-sec to upset hi-sec bears like Tyberius
I still cannot see how 20-50% increases in mineral prices over a three month period (and a decrease in the case of Mexallon) lead to 100-120% increase in ship prices over the same period across most ship categories over the same time. I concede the point on eve-players anticipation of change kicking off the inflationary spiral to a degree. The key test will come if those prices are maintained over the next 3-6 months because Incursioners are awash with risk-free cash; if you don't have the cash you can't pay the price but trade volumes, according to eve-tools anyway, haven't dropped as the prices sky-rocketed and so hi-sec players have been absorbing the hit. (Megathron trade volume index for example
My experience is that 4-5 people cycling agents and completing missions as a group will make more over time than a single player doing them solo in terms of reward, LP, standing and faction standing and that holds true up to L5 and FW missions. If they aren't then they're doing it wrong.Hi-sec and L4's have always encouraged group participation, they are even i hear (god forbid) PVE corporations. I can't imagine much attraction in those if it were far easier to complete them on your own.They existed before Incursions and would if Incursions moved to low-sec I'd wager.
I have always suported L4's in hi-sec, I have always thought suicide-ganks were way too easy, that hi-sec dec bears lives should be made harder and that low-sec is great as it is and only needs the odd tweak here and there but incursions should not be in hi-sec
Put them in low-sec and I still think Tyberius and his friends would fleet up and I think they'd have more fun doing it as well. |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 07:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:Souvera Corvus wrote:
I've been looking at what are quite frankly ridiculous market prices and trying to source exactly where the issue lies. If you were to take the rise in the price of a Dominix for example; before I left some 6 -8 months ago 40-50 mil would be relatively normal now 90mil isn't unheard of. I thought that perhaps CCP's campaign against the botters might be to blame but then that would be reflected in much smaller mineral markets and much higher mineral costs and it doesn't seem to be. Mineral prices whilst higher by some 20% in terms of Tritanium and Pyerite (Trit 3.5, Pye 6.00) have not appreciated by anything like the same measure as finished products. Higher-end mineral prices don't seem to be remarkably different to when I left.
The only thing that changed it seems, and I may be wrong here and am happy for someone to point it out if I am, are the proliferation of Incursions in hi-sec and a resulting increase in player incomes and the amount of ISK washing around hi-sec.
I can see that you have a Ph.D. in Economics...  What caused the insane price increases was rampant speculation on the part of traders ahead of changes to the Drone Regions and some other mechanics changes coming later when the rest of Inferno launches. How the hell you added 1+1 and got 50 is beyond me.
Love how you have reading comprehension: elementary.
Speculation on behalf of players, as outlined by Tyberius was something I conceded in a later post. What I went on say is that ship trade volumes have remained steady despite huge price increases and if it remains like that then the question still stands.
Get past tl;dr, join a proper corp and then I might have a little more time for what passes as your commentary. |
| |
|